Well, let's give this a try and see how well we do. Using the only data available, there are no ads in the DB showing this model so I have to resort to the crystal package which says " Bulova 1200D, 21st Century". So what do we call it?
I'm on the fence...but certainly leaning towards the possibility of non-conforming. At least this will allow us to address the possibility. I think the new rating system, if I follow Geoff's example (which I like), allows us to "change our mind" while we go throught the process. An early post of unknown can easily be changed to something esle after other points are discussed. It's all good, just new and a little different.
I see no reason why we couldn't give this a tentative ID (based on the information we have) for the 21st Century. We know its an official Bulova model (I have 2 NOS packages and crystals as shown above).
Giving it a tentative ID will at least give us something tangible to look for in the adverts as we get new ones.
Similar to Wills 29 Lone Eagle with the later movement. We all know its a 1929 Lone Eagle, regardless of the movement. I think that in situations were a watch case only ever went by one name it shouldn't matter a great deal about the movement, or hands for that matter. Watches that were given multiple names due to a change in date, movement, dial, strap etc, should be treated differently as those aspects do matter to the watch ID.
Back to the subject watch.....whilst I like the idea of making this all about evidence, research and fact, I also like the idea that members of this site (espescially panel members) have a brain of their own and sometimes their thoughts, opinions and theories are on the money. If we have a consensus to tentatively ID this as 21st Century then I'm happy with that, otherwsie if the majority want to assign it to the "Non-Conforming' or 'Unknown' group then that's what we do.
My vote (until such time we have evidence showing otherwise) is a tentative 21st Century.
In reply to I see no reason why we by mybulova_admin
Gentlemen, This is how MB should work. I presenented a watch with no solid ID, a custom dial and a theory. We've seen great comments, with reason to a vote and come out of it without any flack. I did this on purpose, to challenge all of of us. Just to see if we could move forward with some focus and without conflict.
Since this is my watch and I cannot vote, I've always leaned towards an "Unconfirmed 21st Century".
I do agree with Mark that since I had the dial custum refinished it is now "non conforming" and we will not find this dial in any ad ever, though we do need to overlook things sometimes and base our judgements on case, dial figures, hands etc.
As we have seen, bands may come into play also, but I will again point out, manufacture year of case and movement seem to be the most crucial factors.
We can call this watch anything that's exeptable for Stephen to ad it to the database, or he can decide. Makes no difference to me but I will say, This is how a constructive forum should run and I thank you all for your comments and I look to hear from the rest of the panel with regards to this test.
so to summarize, and please let me know if I'm paraphrasing anyone incorrectly.
- eight members have commented on this watch
1 of those is watch owner- Shawn
6 are "voting" panel members for this watch
1 is Darhin, member but not voting panel member - yet :)
of those voting:
Geoff - Unknown notes crystal details as useful but doesn't state worthy of tentative
Me - Tentative 21st Century - crystal specs both from Shawn and DarHin's comments. note somewhere dial redo but not recase. not minimize importance of non- conforming category for this and other watches. QUESTION: Does the case for
this year have the possibility of being another model (or variant) based on dials?
OT - Unknown - but I "think" he's saying if there is a tentative vote he may go for that??
Mark - Non-Conforming. States good reasons why.
Admin- Tentative 21st Century
Plains - 21st Century - I'm guessing he's saying confirmed, but don't know. Notes redial but not
recase.
So while we are trying to get away from a "three tick" system at this level, unless each voter is very clear, it's up to who ever does this summary to second guess unknown, tentative, known. If we used a three tick mechanism - like the one admin has in place- someone like myself wouldn't have to "guess" what folks are saying. It's kind of subjective and clunky the way I've summarized. What about a three tick system, so admin doesn't have to translate. We use his existing three tick code to save time, and we just know in this record the ticks stand for 1. Unknown 2. Tentative 3. Known This way we don't have to guess and translate what each member is saying for them? The "results" would be cut and dry.
Or does this just have us back to where we were a week ago???
Maybe a four choice tally mechanism each voting member completes. the three i mention above, and the fourth being non-conforming. These four catagories are mutually exclusive and totally exhaustive of every watch in the database. What else could there be?
We really don't need a 3 tick system, all we need is 4 categories, Positive ID, Tentative, Unknown and Non-conforming. If the consensus is tentative 21st Century and for the record it is noted that the dial has been redone and changed from the factory specs, that is all that is really needed. Plus, if and when a ad appears, it will be real easy to go in and change these to positive ID's.