1943 A-11 Case

Submitted by blankenau on

Hello,

I have just acquired a what I believe is a 1943 Type A-11, but the case and dial are different than the other A-11s I have experience with.  First of all the cases is larger and noticeable heavier with a solid metal retaining ring.  The back from my other A-11 case (Keystone) does not fit  and unfortunately it did not come with one. The case is plated, maybe chrome, but the base metal may not be brass. I sanded a small section where the plating was very pitted to expose the base metal. If it is brass it is dull and less "gold" like than I would expect. Here are my questions:

  1. Is it an A-11 for sure?
  2. Were there larger A-11s still using the 10AKCSH?
  3. I have heard of other metals used in the cases. What could this possibly be? 

Dial and case images below.

Thanks for any information.

https://postimg.cc/NLJMBBY5

https://postimg.cc/2q7kJf2j

 

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted March 21, 2025 - 3:17am

You have posted images of a Case Bezel and a Dial, both are Type A-11.  

The base metal is Silver or a Silveroid. 

The back of Your Keystone Case, is it marked AF42- ? 

blankenau
Posted March 21, 2025 - 7:43am

Thank you for the reply and info.  I will take a look at the links you provided.   I will have to find a crystal and case back.  The movement is in good condition, but I need a hairspring.  When done it should make a nice piece with authentic dial.

My keystone case is marked AF-43, but it is all hand engraved and field issue a little suspect.  There are 4 sets of hand scratched numbers inside the case back (e.g. 522B, 1587B, 2696B and 3759B). Possibly military repair or parts replacement logging?  Which may add to its authenticity?  The case back is very worn and hard to read except under a loupe at certain angles.  Nearly impossible to photograph with my limited equipment.

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted March 21, 2025 - 10:23am

In reply to by blankenau

Hi,

I would venture to say the scrawlings inside the caseback are service records. 

I have seen the outer nomenclature You describe, as if it is hand engraved.  Authentic?  I'm not sure.   

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted March 21, 2025 - 10:41am

The Bulova parts interchange reference book shows that the 10AK 10BM balances and 10AKCSH balance are not interchangeable, I think they are, the only difference being the hairspring.  Steel on the 10AK 10BM and alloy (anti-magnetic) on the 10AKCSH. 

10AK military surplus balance complete are readily available on eBay. 

blankenau
Posted March 21, 2025 - 12:21pm

Thanks for the balance info.  I will most likely look for a balance complete since my hairspring experience is minimal.

I am curious about the inside case markings.  They are hand made but in a relatively neat row exactly above and lined up with the Keystone logo increasing from top to bottom .  I was thinking the military watch repair group would log the repair with a work order number etc.  The numbers all end in B.  I was thinking B for Bulova as they would also be working on Elgin and Waltham movements. Have you ever heard of this? 

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted March 21, 2025 - 1:34pm

I have not,  perhaps someone here may have. 

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted March 22, 2025 - 7:11am

In reguards to the Keystone case:

My initial reaction was to think some unscrupulous re-seller had etched Military nomenclature into a plain caseback.  Today I am not so sure, there are far too many of them out there.   As primitive as the etching on a Keystone hallmarked Bulova A-11 caseback is I believe they are legit.  

 

blankenau
Posted March 23, 2025 - 12:07pm

In reply to by FifthAvenueRes…

I am inclined to agree. Also the inconsistencies across all A-11s make me think the stamping/engraving standard was loosely followed early in the war. I have seen at least 3 different fonts and engraving styles on Elgin A-11s. ‘43 was still pretty early as far as industries getting fully ramped up. It took some large manufacturers 18 months after Pearl Harbor to be at peak production. some standards may have been sacrificed in order to get equipment out. There is just not enough documentation to be 100% certain of some things. But the research is interesting and fun. 

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted March 23, 2025 - 3:07pm

agreed on all points.