hello i am working on a 7ak and and one of the last coils on the hairspring are touching...i dont have any hairspring tweezers or tools.,, can this be attemped with regaular watchmakers tweezers? Can anyone suggest any books or ebooks on hairspring manipulation, bending the hairspring? I know hairspring sounds scary cause of how easily can become runied but i can't keep asking my watchmaker for help all the time,its not fair to him,and second if i am going to continue learning and doing watch repair i need to do it myself....sceond if i do need tools can some please suggest which type of tweezers and pliars would be a good start...i kinda have an idea already...thank you in advance for any help, i know i say it alot, and it might start to sound meangless but its not, I really am extremly grateful for anyhelp and answers please believe me.....
Hi
I am fairly new at watch repair but have fixed several hairsprings. First and foremost is patience. They are small and delicate. I find the following most helpful: two pair of tweezers with good parallel points, and good magnification. I also use a digital microscope to periodically check my work. I seperate the balance wheel from the balance cock. Anchor the balance wheel. If the spring is tangled you can use a needle from the center out until you get to the tangled part . You can then see what coils need to be untangled. If its bent or twisted, its a matter of rebending or twisting until the coils don't touch. I use a picture of a good hairspring to guide me. Be prepared to ruin your first one. It takes practice.
Good luck.
Tony
Hairsprings are tricky and some of the manipulations are counter-intuitive. Based on your description either one of the last coils is not concentric or something is causing them to stick together. If they are sticking it is usually one of two things. 1) magnetized hairspring or 2) old oil on the coils.
Old oil is cleaned with one-dip. Just dip the entire balance in the solution. Do not soak in the solution because it will eat the shellac out from around the roller jewel. Magnetism is cured with an electronic device that removes it.
If the hairspring needs manipulated then the best way involves two pair of tweezers, steady hand, good light and quite a lot of magnification. The finer the tip on the tweezers the better. Mine are sharp enough to easily poke holes in me.
One of the better descriptions that I know of for process is the Ordnance Maintenance Manual for Wrist Watches, Pocket Watches, Stop Watches and Clocks. This was published by the War Department around the end of WWII. With some searching pdf format of this is available for free. Some information is available in both Fried's Watch Repairer's Manual and De Carle's Practical Watch Repairing.
A word of caution - most if not all of us who have worked with hairsprings ruined their first several. I wish you luck but slipping a couple of dollars to the watchmaker might be money well spent.
Hope this helps.
In reply to thanks i have one dip and a by Ellierose
The old "Chicago School of Watchmaking" course is quite good for learning, but it's hard to find. I got mine off EBay on disc. I wonder (being that we're on myBulova) if there are any materials from the Bulova Watchmaking school around?
One of my better (and more expensive) purchases for working with hairsprings was a stereo boom microscope; the increased depth perception from the dual eyepieces is very helpful.
Bear in mind that I am not a watchmaker and would consider myself a novice to intermediate hobbyist.
The first step would be to release the balance from the balance cock and regulator. If you do this, do you still have the problem with the coils touching. If not, then the problem lay with pulling on the hairspring to get the stud into the balance cock.
This can mean that the watch is out of beat, or the overcoil is damaged/deformed.
If you take the balance from the balance cock and regulator and the problem is still there, then you should be able to see where the problem is, because the coils should be concentric around the center.
In reply to Repairing a hairspring is by bourg01
thanks everyone for the help...I want to learn to fix them even though it takes patients,,vintage hairsprings are drying up..2nd i can't keep on buying part watches,,and there is no way to tell if that hairspring is going to be good 3rd i am poor so i really can't pay 200dolllars to fix a watch thats worth 100 ,getting some pro to vibrate a new hairspring.if he can find one....so fixing them is an option i need to learn...but you are right it does start to seem futile, one little mistake and the whole thing is ruined..
In reply to thanks everyone for the by Ellierose
IT depends somewhat on your expectations. Older hairsprings are just blued steel, and every manipulation you make weakens it. To some degree that's true of the modern ones too. It's highly unlikely you'll ever get a watch with one of these to keep the same level of accuracy compared to a new one. That said, you can still probably tweak it to within +/- five minutes a day, and that's better then throwing it away by a long shot. On a manual wind, it's no big deal to have to get in the habit of adjusting the time when you wind it up in the morning. It's more of a problem on auto's, becuase you'll forget for days at a time, and the one day notice you're out by fifteen minutes or so. But hey, it's not like you're timing thruster bursts in preparation for orbital re-entry or anything like that.
In reply to thanks everyone for the by Ellierose
I would say this then, I have spent 8 years and at least $40 thousand dollars to pursue my dream. I taught myself from books, manuals and anything I could get my hands on. I've bought thousands of crystals, watches and parts. Nothing gets thrown out unless it's rusted. If your planning to get in the game as a repair and restorer, you need to re think your plans. If you haven't built a base to start from and don't have the funds to build one, Sorry but your toast! This takes alot of time and money to do what I have done. If your not committed to a long tern start up save what money you have and move on. Consider the stem and crown I sent you a gift, keep your money, I think you need it more than I do.
Regards Shawn
In reply to I would say this then, I have by bourg01
Again, it's all about expectations. If you're expecting to take old, beat up watches and make them look and work like they're new again, or have delusions of "making a living" out of it, then yes you need years of experience and lots of expensive tools. With the experience being more important then the tools.
But if you're just looking to have a collection of interesting watches that you can proudly say you've resurrected yourself, you don't need to go to that extreme. I've only into this hobby for about 3 years and about 4,000 dollars, and I wouldn't even consider "selling" my services, or even selling the product of my labours. But I have a decent and growing collection of watches that work well and keep good time, and for the most part I don't pay more then about $40-$50. Factor out the cost of the tools, and I'm still looking at somwhat less then $100 a watch in most cases.
Trick is, recognize your limits. Don't expect to be able to get them all working (at least, not right away). Don't expect them to look like some of the NOS or professionally restored watches that get paraded around here. Most important, don't force your skills. If you can't get it to work, put it aside and go back to it later (like months later) and work on other watches in the meantime. There's nothing quite so satisfying as going back to a watch that you remember frustrating your abilities, and discover that you're now able to work on it with almost no effort.
Particularily with hairsprings, a lot of the issue is just practice and confidence. Learning to manipulate the tweezers appropriately under magnification isn't something you can be taught, beyond a certain point. You have to work on it (and make mistakes) to train the memory reflexes. Its like when you started, and had trouble picking up the tiny screws and dropping them into the holes; but after a few months you can do it without barely thinking about it.
In reply to Again, it's all about by AbslomRob
thank you Rob, i dont really expect to make them work like nos,, I mean there are people who know when their watch is plus or minus something like 10 15 seconds...i am not that anal,,i really just want to be able not to need to count on anyone or have to spend more money,, i took your advice about leaving a hairspring on certian watch alone for awhile to i get more practice and knowledge on the matter...i know i am far far away from this but,,,,i really would llike to learn how to vibrate new hairsprings, maybe specialize in something like that,,so that way i would be able buy a new hairspring and go from there....a hairspring vibrator is expensive but you can use an old pocket watch and make your own...these are just thing to look and work towards, in the future, to do.....i just don't want to be hack though....i want to learn,,
I'd just like to add that with watch services in general, and vintage watch services in particular, 99% of the time there is a problem with the hairspring that requires manipulation. It may look fine, but final adjustment is usually necessary to place the terminal coil EXACTLY in the centre of the regulating pins while at rest. Sometimes achieving this will alter the beat, so this must be corrected also, which is not simple on vintage watches with fixed studs, as the collet must be rotated with a special tool. It must be perfectly flat, and perfectly round and concentric. Problems may be at the pinning point of the collet, or in any of the coils, especially the terminal coil. Overcoils are also difficult to correct or create, without training. A diopter loupe is critical, in order to see exactly what is happening. If the spring defies correction while in the watch, removing the balance from the cock and observing how the spring lays can be helpful.
DeCarle's book "Practical Watch Adjusting" is a good reference, but this is a learn by doing thing, and if I remember correctly, we spent 180 hours just making the springs flat and round in school, never mind springing and timing and adjustments. A good way to practice is with junk balances from junk watches or mangled springs from parts watches, remove them from the balance entirely and try and make them round and flat. We started with hairsprings from barometers, then pocket watches, then men's watches, and finally women's watch hairprings.
thanks for the tip, to be honest i never really thought of starting at the collet although it makes perfect sense...i usally think that that problem is in the overcoil...i just bought and ebook of practial balance and hairspring work by ...i have been practicing on old broken hairsprings and balance wheels,,i have also been trying to fix the beat and moving the collect on wheels i have the tools so might as well...also that book show how to make a hairspring vibrator since i dont' have 1000 dollars right now for a swiss made one...but it is something i really like to do...as i said i am self taught so i learn as i go and any advice and info as always i am really grateful...
Walter J Kleinein
Wow - the more I read the more relieved I am that I have a reliable watchmaker that works for what I think is a very reasonable price ($45-50 to clean oil a manual winder, and I live in a MAJOR city).
I really am in awe of those of you that have these skills!! Interestingly enough, the school district I live in has a full time instructor and 12-15 students each year.
Depending on the history of the watch and how it was taken care of, the problems can be simple or more complex. I rarely have to go down to the collet to fix a pinning point problem, but it does happen. Most often, as you say, the problem is on top, the terminal coil. If you are fitting a new hairspring to the collet, then you have to pin it right. Sometimes replacement springs for specific calibres can be had already with collet. My habit of the last three years was to aquire a lot of broken movts in all the most common calibres. They are an excellent parts resource and are critical to any well running shop. Also critical are interchange lists, so you can quickly find out if you already have the part. I have a subscription to the MATSYS online system, but IMO, the best thing about Bestfit and MATSYS are the Bestfit books, 1 and 2. With these, you can cross reference thousands of calibres for stems, springs, wheels, sautoirs, you name it. I couldn't function without them. You can buy the subscription and get the books mailed out by paying at a material house, like Jules Borel in the States. And $45 for a clean and lube with regulation is a very low price.
This reminds me of the advice my Dad gave to me when I was about to leave home and set up on my own. He'd had training as a professional chef, and though his career took him to a different part of the food industry, he remained a talented cook.
I asked him for advice on cooking, and he said, "Think how you want it to taste, and make it that way."
For someone who could scarcely boil water, this was distinctly unhelpful! BUT, as years have gone by and I've acquired experience cooking, I can do it.
I think hairsprings are the same - start with 'book-larning' ( the Army Technical Manual TM9-1575 has a section on hairsprings), then add experience, and eventually it will all make sense.
So don't start on any hairspring you can't replace!