The BULOVA "IVANHOE," Circa 1952- 57 (?) 17 Jewels...
The watch is currently for sale hereafter, if anyone is interested? I inquired about additional images, so excluding the case back, there you have it, for the 1953 version, as advertised? I previously thought the bezel only curved one way (Hence the prior "Harrington" ID hereafter) however according to both Gary and (since) also a third party... it apparently curves from side- to- side as well... And of the three very similar crystals and models specified, from numerous crystal catalogs... ONLY the IVANHOE curves both ways... (See also my prior comments and crystal data, below...) It also appears to denote "L1" on the movement, so perhaps this is yet another 2- year (til cased) gap?? Best :-) Scott
MODEL
GS
GS
SUC
BB
BB
Regis, Harrington (Curves lengthwise, only)
3
CMX324-6 (Std. Molded)
RMS124-27T (Flat Top)
CMX213? 188?
Ivanhoe (Curve BOTH ways)
3
CMX324-6C (Molded, Comp. Curve)
RMS124-26 or -27B (Flat Top or Gabled)
1
MX2135, A, B or C x 188 (Curves x 2)
Best :-) Scott
P.S.
1955 & 60 G-S catalogs: "Ivanhoe" = CMX324-6C (Compound Curvature!)
1957 & 60 SUC catalogs: "Ivanhoe" = RMS124-26 (Compound Curved or Flat Top...)
1957 & 60 SUCs: "Harrington" = RMS124-27B
1957 Federal lists BOTH the REGIS and HARRINGTON, as taking the "MX8-214 x 187 (Dual Bevels, lengthwise... like the "EXCELLENCY SS," etc. (And it CURVES LENGTHWISE, ONLY...)
AND... the various crystal Catalogs mention the "Harrington " as BOTH single and compound curves!? I believe that only the IVANHOE crystals curve BOTH ways, ON the bezel... (i.e. against the metal...)
In reply to MODEL GS GS SUC BB by WatchCrystals.net
Actually your wrong, I have a watch that isn't an "Ivanhoe" as you call yours that also as a crystal that curves both ways and it dates from 1957 (L7) so I have to disagree with you sir about your assumption that the "Ivanhoe" is the only 1950s vintage Bulova that has a compund curvature crystal/bezel. If you don't believe me take a look at my watch yourself.
-Levi
Are we really distinguishing between the Ivanhoe and the Harrington on crystal shape alone, when we have no way of knowing whether a given crystal is original? Do we have any other examples where crystal shape alone has been the sole distinguishing factor between supposedly identical cases?
I have one of these, so I would really like to know what it is, based on something other than how a no doubt replaced crystal is shaped.
I guess without an ad to prove something, both the Ivanhoe and the Harrington/Regis are mere assumptions. If we ever come up with another case style that takes the same size crystal, all assumptions will be invalidated.
Is no one else concerned that we now have this same exact case ID'd as both the Harrington and the Ivanhoe, with the only distinction being the shape (not even the size, mind you) of the crystal that happens to be on the watch when purchased?
I believe that we actually have insufficient evidence to support calling this case style a Harrington, Ivanhoe, or Regis. We only came up with those names based on the crystal size. I know of no ads or other pictoral depictions that show this model under any name.
In reply to agreed 100%. A number of by FifthAvenueRes…
WHAT'S FUN is...
the level of IGNORANCE HERE (or on eBay, etc.) and the near COMPLETE LACK (of realization) that it takes more than "date code" symbology and ADs (which are ALSO illustrated by ARTISTS, vs. watchmakers, for instance) and "what ifs" to NAIL an ID, 20%+ of the time... Like solving a murder, EVIDENCE isn't limited to "visual identification..." In FACT, it requires tools, knowledge AND intuition slash deductive reasoning skills, which a partially to blind person, simply cannot quite see...
There is no shortage of SMART people here... but I'll give you a HINT... I don't pay ANY ATTENTION to date symbols, movements and the like... I simply don't have the TIME... nor the INTEREST, frankly. BUT... how many watch models have I influenced, ID'd, or could I have POSTED MYSELF here, I already had/still have??? Answer: WELL OVER 100...(And that's just the Men's models!!!)
:-) Scott
NOT quite that simple, people...
There's a LOT MORE to it, using crystal specs (i.e. bezel openings and their compound, lengthwise, widethwise, or total absence of curvature...) which simply CANNOT be overlooked... This model was "guessed" to be the Harrington (vs. the Ivanhoe...) based on two IDs, and what Noel (vs. Gary, who better understands watches, crystals, etc. as he refurbs, repairs and resells them!) stated about the bezel opening... (i.e. That it only curved one way, vs. BOTH, as the Ivanhoe does...) The Regis was LATER FOUND, in a different catalog, I sourced AFTER the post... (And ONLY the Ivanhoe curves BOTH ways, as I clearly stated, and Gary mentioned!!!) Another party just bought the "compound curve" glass, who is a watchmaker... SO WHERE ARE I INCORRECT? Listening to the poster?!?
If you don't own any catalogs, then you don't LEARN TO see the "patterns..." And if you don't have/review at least a dozen different (G-S and BB alone, since they have the same Alpha shape prefixes, AND are/were the industry standard...) catalogs... then you have NO IDEA that the same crystal might fix a dozen of so models, from say four different decades... Nor that subtle differents in bezel curves for say a Gruen Curvex model (same bezel prooprtions!) means a dozen models+ that have different ARCS lengthwise, irrespective of what "aftermarket EFX" were inc. into the "option" equation, atop the bezel... (Vs. the UNDERSIDE, WHERE IT COUNTS...)
FACT: I am RIGHT 95% of the time, based on watch IDs in general... (500 and counting, a dozen brands...) I always CORRECT MYSELF on my VERY FEW misconceptions... and with the exception of a slew of fairly RECENT ads posted by Jerin, etc... (who I also basically "schooled," BTW...) where was this SITE, before we ID'd the VAST majority, of these models??? You don't even know, as you weren't HERE, before... (Hint: go to www.Archive.org 's "Wayback Machine... query this URL and have a look! That dates alone on 25% of the watches were 5, 10, 20 years OFF! Models, WHAT models?)
So what do I know that you don't? (PLENTY... Are where to start?!) And crystals are only PART of it... For instance... I instantly knew that "33 unknown" (or most any other 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, etc.) case was mid 30s Art Deco... I ALSO often know who copied whom's designs from most top US brands... But we don't discuss other brands, except to leave "footprints" (in my case) for the GoogleBot, for instance... Child's play... That's what, three simple (but Paramount) examples of WHY I can figure these out... And I'm BEYOND TIRED of repeating myself... because I intended to ID 10,000 top US made vintage watch models from 1925- 1965 +/- and corner the market... and everyone else wants something for nothing... and simply ISN'T going to do their homework, or even INVEST IN the proper tools to further ASSIST...
GOOD LUCK, then! Scott
Wow, someone took the time to archive the site...cool. Shame it's a really old version when it was really only me and a small group of regulars.... well before this newer verison which has allowed many many people to openly and freely discuss their passion and knowledge of the vintage Bulova watch world.
What I would like everyone here to please remember is that we all have a voice and we all have different levels of experience and knowledge when it comes to vintage Bulova watches. Some of us have great strengths in some areas, others not. Some specialise in certain decades and models, others in crystals, others in restoration and others in 'the hunt'. All in all what makes this site such a valuable tool to those looking to seek information about a vintage Bulova watch is the combined strengths of this site.
TOGETHER we make the myBulova.com community. I ask everyone to please remember that and to also remember to respect others strengths.
Stephen.
